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MLW Exclusive Interview: Mikey Weinstein vs. Weaponized Evangelism (Related) by: Shockwave (Related) Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 12:04:11 PM PDT

( - promoted by Maryscott O'Connor )

This is a massive telephone interview by Commander Jeff Huber. It took place about a month ago but because of logistic and other reasons we publish it now. I produced it and Pyrrho was in charge of the audio and technical issues.

Previous interviews included an interview with US Attorney David Iglesias (Related) on his firing and David Miller (Related) on his religious discrimination at the Iowa City Veterans Administration Hospital.

Tonight I am going to the premiere of Constantine’s Sword at the LA Film Festival (Related) . I will blog a review soon. This documentary is about Jewish persecution through the ages and it features the experiences of Mikey Weinstein and his sons at the Air Force Academy.

So this interview is hot, Mikey Weinstein and his cause are getting to center stage, the theocons in the military are going crazy (we are talking numerous death threats) , the Pentagon is being spotlighted and they don’t like it.

What is at stake is the survival of the US Constitution within the US Armed Forces, nothing more nothing less.

Hello, Jeff Huber here, I’m speaking today with Mr. Michael Weinstein.

Mikey Weinstein is a graduate of the U.S. Air Force Academy. He served for 10 years as an Air Force Judge Advocate General officer, and he’s a former assistant white house council to President Ronald Reagan. Recently, he is the co-author, of a book titled With God On Our Side: One Man’s War Against an Evangelical Coup in the Military. (Related)

He’s also the founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Mikey, it’s your website, militaryreligiousfreedom.org, you have a lot of good information there. One of the things you state up front, you talk about religious freedom being not just something that applies to the civilian population, but also to military members, both in the Constitution and through specific legislation that regulates the military. Can you explain a little bit of that to us?

Mikey. Well, sure. I mean look, the military is there to, among other things, to protect us from enemies foreign and domestic, and everything in our country is Constitutionally centric. Our very honorable and noble sailors, soldiers, marines and airmen necessarily give up many of their own constitutional rights in order to serve the higher goal of providing good order and discipline in a lethal military unit that protects the full panoply of constitutional rights for the rest of us.

But one of the things they do not give up is the right that is expressed in the first amendment of the Bill of Rights, that the Congress shall make no law establishing a religion. It’s even particularly, it’s one thing if a fire department has a Cresh on the front lawn, or if there’s a Tenth Commandment in a judicial building, or somebody sings Christmas carols in school. It’s quite different when we’re doing something like this in a place where all the nuclear weapons are.

And this country was absolutely not founded upon Christian principles. George Washington, his administration negotiated the Treaty of Tripoli. It was unanimously passed by the U.S. Senate, and then it was signed into law by the second president, John Adams, in 1797, and the preamble of that starts out that the United States government is not to be considered in any sense founded on the Christian faith. And we have a separation of church and state in this country that is bedrock, and I refer to it as the separation of supernatural and natural.

That doesn’t mean we don’t have religion – we literally have 10,000 religions in this country. They all have some invisible that has written a book, and they all seem to be in opposition of each other. And our Supreme Court has consistently ruled that our guiding principle in this country is to preserve neutrality, between religion and religion, and for that matter, Jeff, even between religion and no religion. And we do have 25 and a half million atheists in this country. Last time I checked, they’re entitled to the full rights anybody else had.

Jeff. And the Constitution, correct me if I’m wrong, is it Article 6 that talks about religious tests won’t be given as the qualification to any office?

Mikey. Yeah, that’s Clause 3, Article 6, which the religious right conveniently never focuses on. You can never have a religious test for any religion in the federal government, and yet I guess they didn’t mean the U.S. Air Force, because on Tuesday, July 12, 2005, the front page of the newspaper most hated by the Pentagon, which of course is the New York Times, the #2 ranking chaplain among the thousands in the U.S. Air Force, Brigadier General Sular Richardson, made the astonishing statement that it was now Air Force policy to “reserve the right to evangelize anyone it determined to be unchurched.”

It was astonishing. And I went into the media for 88 days beating up the Air Force about that. Every radio show, T.V. show, everywhere, Op Eds. And my wife and I raised our hands and said, “Excuse me Air Force, we have three children in you, our daughter in-law who’s Christian, married to our son, they’re both 2004 Air Force Academy graduates, they put on the uniform of you every day Air Force. So we want to know, we demand to know, do our kids follow this Richard Nixon era enemies list of being ‘unchurched,’ and if so, are you or are you not going to exercise your reserve right to evangelize our children? Tell us what the fuck you’re going to do?” They wouldn’t tell us, so we sued for 89 days.

Mikey. Now you’ve got a personal stake in this, and you mentioned your children, there is a pretty compelling story about, I believe it’s your younger son, Curtis’s experience at the Air Force academy.

Jeff. Both of my sons experienced massive anti-Semitism, and my daughter-in-law, a Christian, made to feel that she wasn’t Christian enough. The commandant of cadettes at the Air Force Academy at the time, Brigadier General Johnny Whida, whose promotion we held up for three months, but then he was rushed through last October and got his second star, former Thunderbird pilot, once asked my daughter in-law to go out and essentially harvest non-Christian cadettes to bring them to Ted Haggard, his new life church for their Easter-time passion play called The Thorn.

So yeah, my youngest son, my whole fight started because of the Mel Gibson movie, which I refer to, I forget the name, to me it is The Jesus Chainsaw Massacre, or Freddy Vs. Jesus. That came out in February of 2004, and I was contacted by so many people at the academy, none of them my children, saying do you know how institutionally the academy is pushing this movie.

I was stunned. I mean the kids marching to Mitchell Hall, for three straight days, three straight meals, they stand at attention – this is a gigantic dining facility, two acres under one roof. They’re at attention staring at their plate, and there’s flyers pushing them to go see this movie.

I brought it to the attention of the glitterati there at the academy, thinking they would take care of this. I mean my wife and I have given a lot of money, blood, sweat, and tears, time, and three of our kids to the academy, so I thought for sure they’d handle this. A few months later I was at the academy for a graduate meeting, and my youngest son, who had just finished combat survival training, he was now a brand new third classmen, or sophomore, came to the meeting, and he looked very wan, very upset and troubled. And he said, “Dad, we gotta get out of here.” And I mean I was stunned, this was the first graduate leadership conference. Ironically it had been called to, it had about 174 of these supposedly stellar grads that were there, they were going to explain how they had just defeated the sexual assault scandal. They had fired the top four people and replaced them.

So I looked at my son and I said alright. And we drove off the mass of 18,000 acres, we drove to the McDonald’s at the south gate of the academy, right off the base, and my son was completely silent the whole time. I even drove my Viper up there, because he likes the car better than I do. He didn’t even want to drive it.

We walked into the McDonald’s, and I said, “Alright Curits, I’ve had enough, what have you done?” Because I was terrified he’d gotten somebody pregnant, or alcohol or drug bust, or there was an honor code violation. And I’ll never forget what he said. He said, “Dad, it’s not what I’ve done, it’s what I’m going to do. I want you to tell Mom, and I want you to know to, that I’m going to be getting in pretty serious trouble here.” And I said, “That’s enough Curtis, what the hell have you done. What happened?” And he said that he was going to beat the shit out of the next person who called him a fucking Jew.

And even to tell this to someone, in a speech I had to relive it all over again. And the look on his face wasn’t the look of fear, it was the look you would get, probably when Caesar was stabbed by Brutus. I mean, what? If you had gone on a fishing trip with your best friend but picked up a rock to cave his head in. And his last dying words, he was so confused. He’s a tough kid. He was the city wrestling champ here in Albuquerque. He’s gone to the prep school to live at the Academy for a year. Can you hold on for one second please?...

The bottom line was I realized something was terribly terribly wrong. To make a long story short this was a small thread on the sweater. The more I pulled the sweater, the more I found out that there was going to be a war. And there is now a war. I come to this interview today with the gun smoke on my face. I am at war, and the legions that I lead are at war, not with Christianity, and not with evangelical Christianity. On the contrary, half my family is Christian. I married a Presbyterian girl who converted to Judaism, and that half that are Christian, we have evangelical Christians whose last name is Christian, one of whom is a graduate from the Air Force Academy.

And I am at war with a subset of evangelical Christianity, that has a long name. It’s either Pre or post-millenial Reconstructionist Diminunist Fundamentalist Evangelical Christianity, or just Diminunist Christianity. Roughly 12.6 of the American population, about 38 million people.

Their leaders are well-known. Haggard, of course he’s now out of the picture having had a sudden career change. Fallwell, who’s dead, and as far as I’m concerned, ding dong the witch is dead. There’s not a kind thing I can say about that monster. James Dobson, DJ Kennedy, John Hagey, Pat Robertson, people that have called me all kinds of names.

So we’re at war at them, and we’re at war with them because they’re trying to create a theocracy in this country – a fundamentalist Christian theocracy, but most importantly they’re trying to do it where all the nuclear weapons are. Where all the bazookas are, where the tanks, and the ships, where the silos filled with nukes are. And the most technologically lethal organization ever created by homo sapiens, which is our honorable and noble U.S. military.

I know the religious right would love it if I could be categorized as a, I don’t know, bleeding-heart Sierra club member, chardonnay-sipping, northern California, Democrat. Not that there’d be anything wrong with that. But I’m not. I’m a registered Republican, I’m obviously very disappointed in my party. We have three consecutive generations of military graduates in my family.

My youngest son, who god willing graduates in about nine days, and will wake up from the Air Force Academy as the sixth member of my family to go there. My father’s a distinguished graduate of the Naval Academy. His best friend, Ross Perot, I was Ross Perot’s General Council. My immediate family have over 120 years of combined active-duty military service, and pretty much every major combat engagement our country’s been in, from World War I to the current so-called global war on terror. And I’ve spent over three years as a lawyer for Reagan in the White House.

So I don’t have the profile say of Dick Cheney or a Carl Rove or a George Bush or a Rush Limbaugh, since they never spent any time in the military. I don’t count the Texas International Guard pretend time, you know with Bush wearing a Halloween costume as a fighter pilot as being any military time.

Jeff. You talked about influence of the whole thing. Now this is not something that’s just happening at a military academy, there are a couple of organizations out there that are very involved in spreading this throughout U.S. military bases worldwide?

Mikey. Jeff, it’s astonishing. If the people on this interview can just remember for a couple of numbers in the interview here. The first number is 737, that second number is 13

Jeff. We now have 737 U.S. military installations that the Pentagon acknowledges that we have. It’s really probably closer to 1,000. They’re scattered now in 132 countries around the world as we garrison the globe. On every one of them there’s a significant presence of two organizations that most of America has never heard of.

The first is called the Officer’s Christian Fellowship, for the officers and for the enlisted folks. They’re a Christian military fellowship. These organizations are completely unabashed about having a three-way or tripartite goal, and they’re all up and down the chain of command, which is much more important than the oaths that they all swore to protect and preserve something we call the Constitution.

Goal #1, they want to see a spiritually transformed U.S. Air force, #2, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform. And Goal #3, empowered by the Holy Spirit. This is a massive paradigm shift from the way this country’s been before. You know, Eisenhower never had voted in the presidential election until he ran for president. The concept of it’s better if you’re a Republican than a Democrat, it’s better if you’re an evangelical Christian than a regular Christian, it’s better to be a Christian than a Jew or Muslim. This is something that’s been a massive change.

It didn’t happen over night. We traced it back to the end of the draft in 1972, because when we had the draft, Jeff, at least in theory, we were pulling into conscription people from both blue and red states, as we now call them, with the end of the draft we predominantly are pulling from what we mostly call red states, where there has been a peculiar merging or morphing of patriotism into this concept, this weaponized gospel of Jesus Christ. This diminutive Christianity.

And you know, when people were being pulled in from blue states, a lot of them were already pissed off, and a spoonful of sugar did not make the Jesuses go down. Without the draft it was a volunteer force, things got screwed. The country continued on in 1994 with the so-called Gingrich revolution, when the Republicans took control of Congress, that’s the first time that we very very significantly saw this politics of polarization.

I mean it’s a 1 or 0, very digital. Either you’re with us and our version of Jesus Christ, or you’re not. And then after 9-11 in this country it just went berserk.

You know here’s an interesting statistic for you. In America in 1970, we only had 10, count em 10, mega-evangelical churches, with a mega evangelical church being defined operationally as having 2,000 or more members. But after 9-11, with this complete idiot in the White House, we have had a new mega evangelical church open up in our country in America every 48 hours.

Now that’s their right, I couldn’t care less what they’re doing, unless they’re engaging the machinery of the State, in the words of our U.S. Supreme Court. I believe that it is incontrovertible that that is what is happening. We’ve lost the Pentagon, it’s now the Pentacostlegon, and they’ve turned this Department of Defense into a faith-based initiative.

We’d had over 42 members of the U.S. military, sailors, soldiers, marines, airmen, and veterans, who’ve come to us on fire. They’re not claimants, they’re on fire, the fascinating statistic just stays constant. Roughly 95-96 % of those people coming to us are Christian themselves. That 96-97 %, three fourths are traditional Protestants, Jeff. Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Assemblies of Church of Christ, even Baptists.

The other one fourth are Roman Catholic. The remaining four or five percent will be Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, Atheist, Agnostic. This is basically diminutive Christians that are praying, pray and prey, on non-evangelical Christians, telling them, you know you may think you’re Christian, but you’re not Christian enough, and as a result, according to our religion test, you’re going to burn eternally in the fires of hell along with the Jews. Did you get that?

Jeff. Yeah. Now this is a little shocking to some, I suppose.

Mikey. Oh that’s the problem for us. Because people say, well it can’t be. If this was the case we would have heard about it. But let me tell you something, one of my closest friends, Dave Eglacius, I know you guys have interviewed him before. Until Dave had the balls to speak truth to power, and say I’m not going to take this firing, America didn’t know that we had 150 Stepford wife zombies from one of the worst law schools in American history, Regent University Law School, flooding the justice department. So if we have it there, thank god the Justice Department doesn’t have nuclear weapons and doesn’t fight our wars per se.

Alright, what do you think we have in the U.S. military?

Jeff. Well I believe in your confrontations with the Academy, there was only one officer who stood with you, if I got the story straight, and she was not very senior was she?

Mikey. One of the most courageous people I’ve ever met in my life. Captain Melinda Morton, a former field officer in the U.S. Air Force. She was a missile launch officer, she was a Casey 135 navigator. She got out, got her University of Texas law degree, and then went out and got her Divinity degree. She’s an ordained Lutheran minister, came back in as a chaplain of the of the Academy. Obviously Christian, and a Lutheran. She came out and supported everything, she’d been there for three and a half years, everything that I’d said and then some. She came out for 2400 hours. She was out for 100 days before suddenly, what a coincidink, she got a no-notice assignment to Okinawa, where she was told she would stage multiple times from there into the combat zones of Afghanistan and Iraq. It was supposed to have been a controlled tour at the Air Force Academy.

The Air Force said oh no, this was just her time to go. And of course her career was ruined, she was branded a traitor because she came out to support me. Thankfully now she’s teaching theology at Loyola in Chicago. She’s on our advisory board, and she’s the one that got the Yale report to me. We had a Yale Divinity School team came out and did a report in the summer of 2004, what they saw of the spiritual-religious climate at the Academy, which was just absolutely incontrovertibly filled with evangelical prophesizing.

And look, I tell people that we are not a complex meal. We’re a hamburger. We’re telling the military, look here, you’re going to have to be at least as religiously constrained as a shift member as Starbucks is, or Wendy’s or KFC, or Costco. Because Jeff, if you want to see a Fortune 1000 CEO brought to her or his knees, have the most junior employee in the mail room raise his or her hand, and say, I’m getting me a lawyer, because being evangelized during the work day.

In the real world, the private sector, that is a killer lawsuit under Title 7 of the U.S. code. Even without specific intent, the mere fact that the atmosphere is disparate treatment versus disparate impact, it’s a killer in the private sector. But in the U.S. military it’s a trillion times worse. That’s not just your shift manager, that’s your superior. Military superiority, in the military, having sexual intercourse with someone other than your spouse, adultery, is still routinely punished. I’ve tried and defended those cases because it destroyed good order and discipline.

In the military, if you’re ordered to go to the base at 4 p.m. and you don’t go, it’s a felony. And let me tell you something, it was George Orwell who said, “When facing universal deceits, speaking the truth itself can be a revolutionary act.” But we don’t train our young sailors, soldiers, marines, and airmen to be revolutionaries. They’re trained to fight, kill, salute, take orders – it’s very hard to speak to power.

I challenge anyone reading this interview, have you ever done it? Spoken up to a teacher, boss, girlfriend, boyfriend, spouse, whatever? Have you spoken truth to power? It’s hard to do. My kids have done it, I’ve done it, my wife has done it, Chaplain Morton did it. And it’s just very hard to do when someone’s got a gun to your head to sit there and speak the truth to them. And it’s almost too much to do that, which is why we created the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Yes there’s other organizations out there. The ACLU, People For the American Ways, the Seventh Law Center, Americans United. They’re all fine organizations, I belong to all of them. But none of them focus with laser like precision, again, where the nuclear weapons are, and understand the focus on the military. That’s what we’re here to do. We’re here to educate the media and the American people as to the nature of what we consider to be a national security threat, every bet as serious as that presented externally by Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

And we’re here also to litigate and lay down a withering field of fire and chest wounds, kick ass take names, all those who would bring Constitutional darkness to our land.

Jeff. That’s a great argument Mikey. You know, speaking of holding a gun to somebody’s head, you have been reached out to by more than just active-duty people. I believe you recently heard from a gentleman named David Miller, who is a disabled veteran, and who recently moved back to his birth state of Iowa. And who also, somewhere along the line, he converted to, he’s an orthodox Jew, and he’s just having one heck of a time dealing with, essentially, religious persecution at his local VA facility, does he not?

Mikey. You know, you talk about people like Melinda Morton, and now David Miller. You’re absolutely correct. These are real American histories. I mean taking nothing away from Babe Ruth or Johnny Unitis or Will Chamberlain, I’m sorry that’s not anywhere near the same category. David Miller, 100% disabled U.S. navy veteran, highly-decorated veteran, suffering incredible pain. Part of his 100% status, by the way, assessed by the VA that he’s had a 27 year history of extremely painful kidney stones.

Now let me tell you something. I’ve had two of these, two stones in the last 18 years. I remember the first 30 minutes, yet I thought I was going to die, and the next 5 or 6 hours I wanted to die. I mean the pain is just, I took ten shots of morphine to calm me down to get me into the CAT scan.

David has this happen continually. He was born into a Christian family, converted, became an orthodox Jew, lived in Iowa City. He’s the divorced father of four sons, and he’s on a small stipend from the VA. He’s completely dependent on them. Not just for his income, but also for his medical assistance, which is supposed to be compassionate care. And you talk about speaking truth to power, he’s been hospitalized on at least two occasions in the two years he’s been in Iowa City.

Each time, in unbelievable kidney stones and heart pain, hooked up to a life indicating support machines like heart monitors. He was screaming for nurses to have the Assemblies of God chaplain stop evangelizing him in his hospital room. In pain, hooked up to heart monitors. They were delivering religious pamphlets, and pounding him verbally with Jesus, why won’t you accept Jesus Christ came to the Jews also, etc, etc.

When he tried to approach the hospital staff about this he was told he wasn’t being strenuously objective enough in this. And my response was, what the fuck is he supposed to do, bring Tony Soprano with him? So he reached out to our organization, and we did a press conference last week in Du Moin, Iowa, where we indicated that we are carefully looking to prepare a lawsuit against the Veteran’s Administration.

I can tell you that I had a major networkTV crew that came to our press conference, and told us in preparation for the press conference they went out to Iowa City to the VA Center. And I won’t tell you which station, the correspondent told me he said my God, I walked in there it looked like a church. Everywhere he went he met with people wanting to know why he would not accept Jesus Christ as first lord and savior, and I tell you again, these are government employees.

The days of Father Mulkayhe on Mash, that’s the kind of chaplain most of America looks at, and that’s the kind I had when I was at the Air Force Academy. We only had six chaplains when I was there. Actually, for 4,400 Cadets, 600 staff. Now they have 4,200 cadets, same amount of staff, but they had 18 chaplains, and like 22 reserve chaplains. And here’s an example for you – the Air Force Academy wing, which has 2,700 Protestants in it. 1700 are non-evangelicals. They have none of the 18 chaplains that are non-evangelicals to support them. The 908 cadets who are evangelical have a dozen chaplains to support them.

And this is mirrored throughout the air force. We see it all throughout the VA. David has stood up, and has initialed his name as the Elephant Man, David Merick. And it’s the same statement he’s saying, he’s crying out, I am not an animal, I am not a Jewish animal. I am a human being, I am an American human being.

Jeff. Now he recently, he appears to have gone from bad to worse to worse. He’s in a situation now, and maybe you can add some granularity to this. He went in finally for some pain medicine, and I believe at first he was refused, and a then he went back and talked to another doctor at this particular VA clinic. And to get anything at all he had to sign some agreement that, frankly as a layman, I’m amazed that anyone could get away with that.

He cannot seek pain medicine from anyone else, he has to take the medicines they give him, there’s something in there about, there’s a increase in dosage that he has to start taking. He is at their beck and call that he has to come in to be examined and take drug tests, and so on and so forth. And I spoke with him less than a week ago, and I was thinking, how on Earth is it even legal for someone to take that kind of control of another person?

Mikey. What they’re doing is they’re trying to paint him as a drug user. He has absolutely no misdemeanors, no felonies. He’s clean as a white sheet, that’s just been through the laundry. He has absolutely no record ever of any drug abuse whatsoever, so they’re trying to say, well, his recent medical test showed four kidney stones on the left kidney, one on the right, but the doctors said, well actually this can’t be causing you the pain, we know it’s not.

So we’re trying now to reach out to various numbers of world class nephrologists, who are kidney specialists, who can say, well of course this could be it. You’re absolutely right, this is a scandalous outrage. Just as it was when he talked to his primary care physician at the VA, begging for help, and the physician said, I’m not going to give you any medication, and he reached over to David’s knee and touched it, and said, “You know, you’re a religious Jew, why don’t you go home and meditate, perhaps that’ll suffice for you.” Which was absolutely beyond the pail.

But look, this is what we’re facing now. We’re facing institutions that have become diminunist Christianized. Their view, again, as I’ve said earlier, it’s digital. Either you’re with us or you’re not with us. They quote Matthew 12:30. Where Jesus says, those who are not with me are against me.

I have them quote to me all the time, and I mean I grant them anonymity when these commanders and senior people in the Defense Department say to me, look we mean business Mikey, look at Luke 19:27, where in the parable of the pound Jesus says, go out among the people and bring back to me those that will not accept me, Jesus, as king over them, and slaughter them. So they take what they want, pick and choose out of the New Testament.

And what they don’t seem to get, at all, is I sat there and said, listen to me, if you want to believe that, because they’ll look at me and say, Mike, why are you doing this, you’re a Republican, you have a strong military family. If you had the cure for cancer, wouldn’t you want to give it to our troops? And they don’t realize yet by stating that that they’re directly saying that anyone who doesn’t have their weaponized gospel of Jesus Christ as their religious faith, whatever their faith might be including atheist, it’s a cancer.

And I, they’ve told me that Jack, Benny, and Dr. Seuss, President Kennedy, Anne Frank, the 2,000,000 children under the age of 12 who died in the Holocaust, they say, Ghandi, Einstein, they’re all burning eternally in hell. We don’t want this to happen to you or to your family Mikey, or to the troops, which is why we’re trying so hard to get them to know the lord Jesus Christ.

And my response is this, and they don’t seem to have the wherewithal yet to understand it. I’ve told them, look, if you want to believe that those 2,000,000 children, who walked into the hermedically-sealed gas chambers, when the the Nazi B gas turned their little juvenile bodies into blue and purple polk a dotted corpses which were then shoved into the creamatorium, if you want to believe under your weaponized gospel of Jesus Christ that they are burning eternally in the fires of hell, I would give my last drop of blood and my last breath to support your right to believe that, because that’s what our social contract in this country says, our Constitution.

I would die for your right to do that. I would commend my three children who wear the uniform of the armed forces of this country to likewise give their last drop of blood, and their last blood, but I will not do that when my government tells me who are the children of the greater god, and who are the children of the lesser god. Been there, done that, seen the train leave the station over and over again in the last 2,000 years whenever this weaponized gospel of Jesus Christ in that form has engaged the machinery of the state. And by the state I don’t mean Housing and Development or the EPA I mean the Armed Forces.

And we have not ended up with little creeks, rivers, streams and lakes, we end up with oceans and oceans of blood. The train has left the station over and over again. It’s not just the Holocaust, the Inquisition, the nine Crusades, the black death. Whenever this has happened, the train leaves the station and goes to one town, slaughterville. So what we’re facing is a national security threat every bit as serious as that posed by the Taliban and Al Qaeda, but internally.

And now I know why that guy set himself on fire in front of Robert McNamera’s office at the Pentagon during the Vietnam war, what does it take to wake America up? Most Americans are docile and soup-minded. They sit on their asses until they get excited. You know some Americans think the idea of activism is to spend is to spend three chilly nights on an air mattress in front of Circuit City to make sure you get your Playstation 3.

Jeff. Well you bring up something, as a guy who writes on foreign policy issues, this is something that really caught my eye from your site, and I’m quoting. “Religious freedom takes on an additional importance in the current international environment, where religious motivations are an increased rationale for waging conflict. At a time when the United States is encouraging greater religious freedom in Muslim nations, it is imperative on America to show by example that religious pluralism is a viable and preferred option. Any sign of hypocracy in United States policy, official or otherwise, for the free exercise of religion, makes it more difficult to convince others to follow our nation’s chosen path.”

I wanted to commend you on that because I thought it was quite well-said. And it’s something that I think a lot of people running foreign policy or watching the foreign policy scene really don’t understand. And basically your assertion is, religious tolerance has to be a vital component of both our domestic and foreign policy.

Mikey. You know it’s interesting, general order #1 in the AOR, which you may know stands for Area of Responsibility, general order #1 talks about not spending anyone’s religious faith to anyone else while you’re in the combat zone. But apparently it’s okay while you’re in America. And yet it’s massively ignored over there. You tell me, when we have an air force policy on the front page of the New York Times, that the Air Force will reserve its right to evangelize anyone it determines to be unchurched.

We’ve got the Officers Christian Fellowship stating that we want to see a spiritually transformed U.S. militaries, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform. Hello, that was the ninth Crusades. Which, in the long memory of the Middle East, happened about last Tuesday.

And what do you do when you find the 523 Attack F-15 Fighter Squadron, which we’ve found in our foundation here, in my home state of New Mexico at Canon Air Force base, they’re called the Crusaders. Their official Air Force logo on their F-16s, which were equipped to handle conventional laser-guided and nuclear weapons, on their flight suits, in their squadron, a giant crucifix, a giant crusader’s helmet from the year 1096, surrounded by three yellow stars in the shape of a cross with the Trinity and a giant crusader’s brood sword.

You tell me what Iman al Zawari, Osama bin Laden, the one-eyed head of the now-resurgent Taliban, Hezobolaw, Islamic Jihad, is there anything this country and this moron as president could possibly be doing to act as a greater accelerant or lubricant for already angry young Islamic men and women in Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, they all want to come and join the cause against us.

I mean, it’s so counter intuitive. Everyone in this country knows there’s a huge rivalry between the Red Sox and the Yankees, you tell me what George Steinbrener would do to Joe Torry if three days before he brought his Yankees into Fenway Park in Boston for a 3- or 4-game set, Joe Torry told the media that it was clear to him that the mothers of the Red Sox players were whores? You think that might change the dynamic a bit?

So you tell me what we’re doing, with how many times have Bin Laden and everybody else referred to us as to invading American imperialist crusaders. Now the Air Force, we’ve been haranging on them for over a year about the attack, F-16 Squad of the F-23rd. Two weeks ago they deactivated the squadron, saying they were going to always do it anyway. But they could bring it back at any time.

But you can imagine with that logo in it, the crucifix, the sword and the helmet and the three stars representing the Trinity, it’s already hard enough for the Yankees to beat the Red Sox in Fenway, without calling their mothers whores. So I’m sure you can see the analogy, which is why I don’t know whether or not – I mean Cheney had what, five exemptions from getting into the military service academy? He had other priorities. Rove had like six. Thank god for Rush Limbaugh. Rush Limbaugh tore into me a couple of months ago, saying what a coward, pacifist, and aider and embetter to Al Qaeda, can you hold on for a second gentlemen?

Shockwave : I love the term ‘weaponized gospel.’

Jeff. I also have a question to as to whether or not any of this is being reflected in Iraq.

Mikey. Sure. Listen, we get called from the combat zone constantly. We have young, I’ve had a young army private, at one of my speeches recently in Arizona, came up to me with tears in his eyes, saying how much he appreciated it. He told me what he went through. He just got back from Afghanistan, he’s now stationed at Fort Dickson, New Jersey, so he lives in Arizona.

He said when he was going through army processing they asked him whether he was an evangelical Christian. He said, well no I’m just a Christian. So then to punish him, they put down none on his army dog tags. For he didn’t want to specify a particular faith on his dog tags.

When he got over to Afghanistan, his command structure was furious at him for having none down on the dog tags, his first sergeant gave him a small Dixie cup and tweezers, and for the first 10 days there his job was to pull pubic hairs out of the unit latrines until he filled up the Dixie cup. He was being punished for having the wrong religious faith.

There’s a lot of down time in the combat zone. The troops tell us that one of the things they like to do the most is go to the unit DVD libraries and check out movies. But many of the commanders now are censoring the DVD libraries, leaving only those movies with “strong Christian content,” so they have real trouble getting Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings.

Man of the battle staff meetings open up with Diminunist Christian prayer sessions. I had an army captain tell me that he tried to confront his colonel about it, who, in front of all the troops, grabbed him by the lapel and said, Boy, we’re here to do two things. Spread American Democracy and the gospel of our lord and savior Jesus Christ.

I’ve had members of the military tell me that those who refuse to accept this particular religious view are given the particularly onerous fire team assignments, where it’s known they’re going to get run up against higher resistance of IEDs, as well as insurrectionist jihadists.

It goes on and on and on and on. And I remind people to look at who I have on my advisory board. The former three-time governor of Colorado, the former CEO and publisher two-time Pulitzer winner, nine-time nominee of the Los Angeles Times. Another man, a valued American hero who stood up and spoke truth to power, ambassador Joseph Wilson, the husband of outed CIA agent Valerie Plane. You know, I’ve got the former vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff, a Catholic, who ran the huge USAA Banking and Insurance empire for ten years. General Robert Harries, he was behind Colin Powell as the #2 soldier in the Pentagon. Admiral Bud Cauderer, the first person to command all U.S. naval submarines in the Atlantic, Pacific fleets.

So I’m saying, wake the fuck America and see what’s happening here!. I mean, Martin Luther King is the one who said, if there comes a time of silence becomes betrayal. Even Machiavelli, the darkest places of hell are reserved for those who maintain their sense of “neutrality,” particularly in times of moral crisis. And I actually prefer Ellie Viseld, the Nobel peace prize winner, who has stated, the chief witness and chronicler of the Holocaust, who stated, look, you have to take sides now. Silence does nothing than help the tormented be tormented by the tormentors, and neutrality does nothing more than help those without power be further hurt by those in power.

And I guess lastly I always remember the quote from Sinclair Lewis, who was the first American to win the Nobel Prize in literature. He wrote a book in 1935 commenting on the spread around the globe of fascism. And the book was called It Can’t Happen Here, meaning America. Four years later he went to Germany for a short while to observe life under the fascist Hitler regime, the Third Reich. Came back to America, and of course he was widely celebrated, because finally we had an American who won the Nobel prize in literature. And the press asked him, Mr. Lewis, what did you see over there? And he said, Let me tell you what I saw. I saw fascism. And not if but when it comes to America, fascism will be wrapped in the American flag carrying the cross.

Fourteen years later Westpoint graduate, former five-star general Douglas MacArthur, in the midst of the cold war, made the famous statement that symbology is very important to our American fighting machine. And the two most important symbols are the flag and the cross because they teach our American fighting men how to die and how to live.

Mikey. Yup. Recall it very well. And Mike, if you don’t mind at this point, I’d like to open things up a little bit and invite some other members of our production team to chime in and ask questions. Shockwave and Pyrrho. Shockwave, what would you like to ask Mikey?

Shockwave : I think I had one question about the operations in Iraq, or Afghanistan. I think Mikey already answered that, however I’m very intrigued by his opinion on this junior ROTC book recommendation issue, I think that the Air Force has a list of books that are recommended reading, if you see anything there that is of concern?

Mikey. Well before I answer that, that’s an excellent point, we have not broken that in the media yet. I can tell you it’ll break in a major publication on Thursday, but you know we caught a three-star military general at a major military command, who ordered his staff to put together a command of 75 troops, his staff to put together a Powerpoint, which was to be signed off on by all troops, showing the direct parallel between the Book of Revelations and all of our movements into Tikrit, the northwest part of Baghdad.

We were able to get it to stop after it went to 2500 troops, but of course it recalls the concept of the thirteen-stroke theory, which is something we litigators call. Like the crazy 13th stroke of a crazy, inaccurate clock that casts doubt not only on that hour but all that precedes it, is absolutely – and of course the book of Revelations is a great passion play, now it just happens that the Jews disappear in Part 4. No Jews get to go to heaven, I mean we are all either forcibly converted or thrown into the lake of fire.

And of course evangelicals are fond of saying Mikey, why do you fight us, we love you Jews and Israel. My wife has the perfect response to that, we call it the evening of the first Thanksgiving theory. Is that the evangelicals of course love Israel and the Jews to the same extent the pilgrims loved the Turkey the night before the first Thanksgiving. They’re just fattening the heard for the slaughter.

Much to my shock, my research team very recently found that look, here’s your numbers, we have 430,000 active members of the U.S. Army. We have 500,000 young teenagers in junior ROTC programs in the high schools scattered across the 50 states. We’ve recently uncovered a bomb shell, a nuclear bomb shell, that the written guidance given out in Unit 6, Chapter 3, entitled You The People, includes writings from Diminunist Christians advising the leaders of these junior ROTC programs to present the perspective that the separation of church and state is a myth, that the famous letter written January 1, 1802 from Thomas Jefferson, where he refers to a wall separating church and state to the Baptists, was meant by Jefferson only to say the government will not interfere with the church, but certainly we don’t mean to keep the church out of government.

It’s like trying to tell these young kids a rainy day is a sunny day, up is down, black is white. Unbelievable, absolutely unbelievable. And we have incontrovertible proof of this in Chapter 3, Unit 6, directives from the Pentagon. That’s all I’m going to say about this at this time.

Shockwave : Directed from the Pentagon?

Mikey. From the Pentagon, to the half million, which is 70,000 more than we’ve got in the whole U.S. Army, in all the high schools around the country. Not just Air Force now mind you, no this is Marine Corps, Army, Navy, ROTC just as well. These kids are 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th graders.

Shockwave : For us childless middle aged bachelors, how would these kids be?

Mikey. They’d be 15, 16, 17, 18.

Shockwave : Can you, we talk about the Pentagon, it’s kind of hard to, can you give us, or maybe you don’t want to at this time, can you give us a more specific idea of what office of the Pentagon this is coming out of?

Mikey. Um, I can’t give it to you at this time. I can say it comes out of the appropriate office on the Secretary of Defense’s staff that oversees all of it.

Shockwave : Ok.

Mikey. It would be basically OSD, Office of the Secretary of Defense. And we were absolutely stunned. But look we get contacted by chaplains and non-chaplains around the clock, telling us the Diminunist tidal wave throughout the military permeates as extensively as radio and TV waves, which means everywhere. But unless you turn on the right radio or TV, you don’t know.

I was recently contacted by a freshman member of the United States Congress, who told me he was a huge backer, he bought my book and everything, but he wanted me to know one thing to cheer me up. He called me on a Friday, because he had just come back from West Point, and he was happy to report that everything was fine there.

I said, Congressman, you’re wrong. It’s horrible there. When you show up there it’s like the American Red Cross going to a POW camp. Three days before the inmates are fed, they’re given clean and pressed uniforms, and they’re told to smile and be very happy when the International Red Cross shows up. I mean how can you be that naïve? West Point is on fire, Annapolis is on fire. I mean, but again, 737 U.S. Military installations. This has happened.

And in the early 1960s a famous movie came out. There were two most famous Cold War movies. One was with Henry Fana called Fail Safe, the other one was with Kirk Douglas and Bert Lancaster called Seven Days in May, about a military takeover of this country. And like I said before, I am not a conspiratorialist. I’m just telling you that in America, look, this has happened, and this is not Al Gore and An Inconvenient Truth.

We’re at a tipping point. We’ve tipped at the most lethal fighting force that’s ever been created by mankind, the Constitutionally-mandated wall separating the supernatural from the natural, is now nothing but smoke and debris. And anyone that wants to do something, get to the website. Yes you can call you can write. We’ve formed the weapon, help us fight. It’s expensive, lonely, and dangerous doing this.

My family has received many threats. We’ve had churches burned down, synagogues desecrated. We’re used to it now, but my response is that, they’re pussies, take their best shot. My board wants me to wear Kevlar when I speak, I’m not going to do that. Militaryreligiousfreedom.org. We’re fully tax deductable. We’re a charity, we’re a recognized non-profit. And every dollar donated to us is probably worth $10,000 from the other side.

The other side has taken to, I mean called me many names. James Dobson, the antagonizer of all Christianity. The most dangerous man in America. I’ve been called the antichrist lawyer. And then about 50 weeks ago, I’m sure it’s happened someplace in America today, on Sundays they started throwing my picture up on the jumbotrons in the sanctuary of a lot of these mega-Evangelical churches. And I don’t know Jeff how much they pay their public relations staff, but they came up with a new name for me. Which is underneath my name they write, Field General of the Godless Armies of Satan. And you know, some of the loonies out there believe that crap.

So what I’m saying is if you want to help, and you should, go to the website, read about us, see who’s backing us, how legit we are, you know, I was general council and two-time Presidential candidate and Texas billionaire H Ross Perot. I’ve been a lawyer for the President. I was the person under the Federal Advisory Committee who was management officer for the Iran Contra investigation. You know, my family has a long military tradition. Help us with donations so that we can fight.

We’ve formed the weapon. I’m begging people out there to go to the website, see what we’re about, click on donate. I don’t care if it’s a dollar. That’s worth 10,000 on the other side.

Jeff. And once again, the address of your website, it’s not too hard to remember, you spell it how it sounds.

Mikey. www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org. My book is out, we have a movie deal on the book. As Elliot Fitzger, the new governor of New York is fond of saying, you can’t change the world by whispering. Well, my book is meant to be a primal scream. It’s short, just 209 pages not counting appentices. It’s called With God On Our Side: One Man’s War Against an Evangelical Coup in America’s Military. It’s at Border’s, it’s at Barnes and Noble’s. You can get it right on Amazon, you can click on our website and get it. Everything goes to the foundation, but it’s a shocking thing to read, and what we’re trying to do is to get people to understand our mission – well it’s really very simple.

The start was Benjamin Franklin. When he walked out of the U.S. Constitutional Convention he was swarmed by adoring American colonists and his new citizens, and they all said Mr. Franklin, Mr. Benjamin Franklin, what type of government have you all bequeathed to us? And his famous response was, a republic, if you can keep it. What I’m saying to it is please help me and those who support me keep the republic.

Pyrrho. Mikey this is Pyrrho, I think you make a really compelling case, and it’s shocking. And I’m sensitive to this kind of issue, but I did not really know it was this overt, or even, well I guess it’s not legal, but I didn’t know it was even possible to be that overt and get away with it.

Mikey. Well listen, I appreciate your candor, and your words mean a lot to me. We caught a four-star general in his command building, he commands 80,000 troops, supporting the distribution of a pamphlet through his staff, advising them to go to an off-base mega evangelical church and take a course there entitled Jesus vs. Muhammad: An Examination of both the Life of Both Prophets and Why Jesus is Superior to All. We’ve had brownbag lunches on military installations, with flyers going out saying, do not take this flyer down, this is an officially sponsored U.S. Air Force Academy activity, in conjunction with the Christian Leadership Ministries. Today’s luncheon was attended by hundreds of officers in uniform, with all of the subordinates watching. Today’s luncheon topic, “Why we cannot let you have your god while we have ours.”

When Dr. James Dobsen opens up Focus on the Fascists, or Focus on the Family if you will, in 1993, the Pentagon authorized the Air Force Academy’s famous parachute jump team, the Wings of Blue, to parachute down out of the wings of the spring skies, carrying, I kid you not, the keys of heaven. They landed on Focus on the Family’s front yard, marched in formation, and handed over the keys of heaven to Dr. Dobsen.

We had another four star – four star general, I hope your readership understands this is as high as it gets – who, on advised his command of 65,000 to consider giving up a weekend to drive 135 miles to join him at Creationfest, where they would be celebrating the fact that the Earth is 2500 years younger than our best scientists can conclusively prove, and the Summerian’s and Babylonians learned it through beer. The end of the email coming down said that negative RSVPs would be scrutinized.

Jeff. What I’m curious, my question, obviously you are very proactive, trying to enforce the law and get a legal solution because the laws are clear, really, compared to how bad this is.

Mikey. Can I just say, you’re right. We believe that politically under the Republicans man exploits man, but under the Democrats it’s just the opposite. So we’re focusing on the federal court system.

Jeff. But here’s, you said something, what is the real solution? Are you saying that, what about the draft, you mentioned that. I’m a progressive, I believe in the emancipation proclamation, but a required national service has this aspect of taking from the population a cross section, for better or for worse, it’s America. And I mean, is that the solution? Do you think there’s a complete solution with the legal system?

Mikey. I think there’s several solutions, and clearly I support the reinstitution of some sort of national service, if not in the military, which I certainly support, than in the peace corps or something like that for 18 year-olds. I believe we should have some sort of national service after high school so we can appreciate – we’ve lost all sense of where this country, because they don’t teach Government in high schools anymore. Our kids graduate, and then many of them are in college, they have no clue as to the difference between a U.S. Senator, a U.S. Congressman, the separation of powers, the concept of checks and balances.

So there’s that aspect, and certainly federal court dispositions. Look, we had a court decision most people ignored, it came out of the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, which is Virginia, Maryland, the D.C. area, very conservative court that has for decades has come down on the side of military commanders for whatever they want. Remind you, this is not the liberal Ninth Circuit Court which is out in California. This is the conservative Fourth Circuit. In the summer of 2003 there was an objection to the mandatory suppertime prayer at VMI. Everyone knows Westpoint, the Air Force Academy, Indianapolis, but we have at least two well-respected and prestigious state military colleges, the Military College of South Carolina, commonly referred to as The Citadel, and VMI, the Virginia Military Institute.

Some of the cadets at VMI objected to this, it was a completely secular, it was a non-sectarian prayer that had been given, been done for over 100 years in the evening time meals. And the cadets were forced to stand there and do it. Several cadets objected, and the case was called Melon v. Bunting, and the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals came down and said, you know what, we’ve looked at the military, and particularly academies. We understand that the military environment is adversarial, communal, and rhitualistic – therefore we believe that even a secular prayer at VMI exacts an unconstitutional toll from religious objectors.

We have regulations at the Pentagon, because of the draconian specter of command influence, forbid superiors up and down the chain of command from pushing by name Mary Kay cosmetics, and Tupperware on subordinates. And yet we’re going to allow them to push a weaponized gospel of Jesus Christ? So it’s education as litigation, and that’s what we’re all about. And we’re the only ones doing it, and that’s pretty scary.

I looked around, I tried to go to the other organizations. They’re so vertically encrusted, it was impossible. You know aircraft carriers take lots of ocean to turn. I’ve created our organization to be like a PT boat, we can move, we’re very nimble, very fast.

Shockwave : And so how long has the Military Religious Freedom Foundation been around?

Mikey. December of 2005 is when we started.

Jeff. This is Jeff again. When do you think this problem came to a head? The Washington Post posed a prize winning military correspondent, Thomas E. Ricks, wrote, oh he did something back in I think the late 80s, where he was starting to talk about the fact that the military membership, that there was some incredible number of people he surveyed who identified themselves as being conservative Republicans, and also some kind of evangelical or born again Christian.

This has been coming for some time. Where do you think all this started? I mean I have my own theories.

Mikey. Well I answered that. It started with the end of the draft and then it started with the fact that the military historically, when it’s been left to its own devices, after the Civil War it got into military fighting – even during the eight years of the Clinton administration because of the estrangement, the well known, internationally known estrangement between the Pentagon and the Clinton administration, the military tended to look internally.

And look, you also have the dark forces of this diminunist Christian philosophy, all about the end times, all about Armageddon, and thinking the best way to persue this is in the military. Look it’s been said, this is a perfect statement that applies here. Servitude in the end times and the afterlife appears to be completely incompatible with Constitutional respect and tolerance in this life.

You know, three words that are woven into the very fabric of Americana that makes us what we are in this country, are just the three words, tolerance for diversity. E pluribus unum, out of many comes one. And what I blame the diminunist Christian right for, what I consider to be a blood libel, a felony against Democracy, a crime against humanity, is that they take those three beautiful American concepts. Tolerance for diversity, and they rape it, they torture it, they bludgeon it, and they assault it. So out of their mouths, those three words come out to be intolerance for those of this in the majority, completely forgetting the words of Sandra Day O’Conner, we don’t count heads before enforcing the first amendment in this country. And the first amendment is not a law of convenience.

I tell people all the time when they ask me, Mikey what do you have against the ten commandments being displayed? And I tell them I’m all for it in government buildings and every school room, as long as we can add, under two conditions. And they always sigh and go well what are the two conditions. And the first is that we can all agree what the ten commandments say, because even among significant Protestant denominations there’s significant differences about what the Ten Commandments are, to say nothing about the differences between Protestants and Catholics and Christians and Judaism.

But assuming we can do that, I’m all for the displaying of it, as long as we put the ten Levitican penalties for each one. Failure to honor the Sabbath, death by stoning. Taking the lord’s name in vain, death by stoning. Failure to honor thy mother and father, death by stoning, etc.

Jeff. You know death by stoning, when you start talking about like, that sounds like another religion that people the likes of Neil Bourds are saying are downright evil.

Mikey. I know buddy. You know there’s four stenches to these people that we fight. It’s like walking into, on a hot July afternoon, walking into a big ditch, and you know your nose, your nostrils being assaulted by the stench of the rotting corpses of 10,000 swine. The first stench is that of virulent anti-Semitism The second is the stench of virulent homophobia. The third is the stench of virulent of miscegeny, the thought that women should only be selecting food, preparing food, cleaning up after meals, after they serve food, spreading their legs, getting pregnant, and raising children. And the fourth is, the subordination of merely “man’s laws,” including a little thing called the Constitution, to the ultimately highest law of their weaponized gospel of Jesus Christ.

And that’s why we fight these people. There is no talking. We are so far apart, and I recently debated at the Air Force Academy a few weeks ago Jay Sekulow, (Related) who’s Pat Robertson’s lawyer. We are so far apart that if we could increase the level of communication between their side and ours a thousandfold, we might then be able to say that we’re two ships passing in the night. Right now we are two star ships in different space-time continuums in different sides of the universe. We’re in it to win it, only one group can win.

This is not a Christian-Jewish issue, not in the slightest. This is a diminutist Christian versus the Constitution issue. That’s all we’re saying, it’s about what you can and cannot do using your position of control over someone else. Which even at Starbucks, a boss to an employee is one thing. In the U.S. military it’s life or death.

And these people know this. If they don’t know it it’s willful ignorance, meaning being stupid on purpose.

They can threaten me. I’ve had a group of Christian women that call every week, they just chant on the phone, Mikey Weinstein, bulletin ahead, praise the lord, he’s finally dead. They’ve called my wife and told her they were going to blow her head off and cover her in her own blood. They are have our seat numbers at Falcon Stadium, we’re season ticket holders. They had our license plate numbers, they knew she had a nick in the wind shield.

You know, the calls come three or four days a week. Before the debate at the academy they came eight straight days, there was a blizzard there that day. The last call I had was somebody telling me that it was going to be my red blood in their white snow.

The worst happened at UCLA, and you know, Shockwave was there with me. Right before, it was I guess three Sundays ago today at 3:51 in the morning, a little girl called up threatening my life, and in the background I heard the adults telling her what to say. That’s beyond sick.

Jeff. Well it’s not just beyond sick, but this is the behavior of people who call themselves Christians, do unto others, love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek. It’s just pretty amazing.

Mikey. Yeah, it’s all about we love you we love you we love you. It’s very much like a mafia guy coming to a bakery owner in Brooklyn, and putting a gun to their head. And saying look, I’m gonna come by every Wednesday and protect you from me. All you have to do is give me $500 and I’ll take care of you. And the view is, we’re going to protect you from our version of Jesus Christ, who will light you up like a fourth of July roman candle. You’ll burn eternally in a lake of fire, unless you drop to your knees, are slain in his spirit, and washed in the blood of the lamb.

We’re all about love, we’re all about peace. Don’t accept our religious views and you have no right to be an American, and you probably have no right to be living on planet Earth.

Jeff. Yeah.

Mikey. Gentlemen I need to get going.

Jeff. Okay, thank you so much for your time. Been a real pleasure talking to you.

Mikey. It’s an honor. You asked great questions.

Jeff. It will be, I don’t know, but typically we’re talking…

Shockwave : An audio version in the next couple days.

Jeff. And I will also advise other people about this interview.

Mikey. One more thing I’d like to say for what it’s worth. When I debated, when they were trying to set the debate up at the Air Force Academy between myself and Jay Secula, the head of the American Center for Law and Justice, the ACLJ. It’s not just a coincidence that it’s just one letter off from the ACLU. Before I accepted doing it, the superintendent of the Air Force Academy, a three-star general, Lieutenant General John Regni, actually said me an email saying am I sure I want to do this while my son is still there, because he couldn’t necessarily say something was going to happen, he still wasn’t quite sure how, I may even send that email to you Shockwave : In any event, I found it fascinating. And we’ll keep fighting, if you need anything else, pictures, Mr. Hailey has those.

Gentlemen, it’s been an honor and a pleasure, and your reputations precede yourselves, and I hope we get a big hit out of this thing. For what it’s worth, I know that the print media will be hitting with the ROTC story Thursday morning.

Update:

Since the interview was too long and it got chopped off by the server, I posted the tail end as a comment replying to Maryscott's comment below. (Shockwave)

Commander Jeff Huber, U.S. Navy (Retired) writes from Virginia Beach, Virginia. Read his commentaries at Pen and Sword. (Related) Pen and Sword.

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Shockwave -- it got cut off

(8.00 / 2  (Related)  8.00 / 2 )

Darned thing is so long it got cut off. I added the "To be continued..."

-9.63, -7.03     If I can't rant, I don't want to be part of your revolution.

by:
Maryscott O'Connor  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 14:23:20 PM CDT  (Related)  [ Reply  (Related)

]

Here is the tail end of the interview

(11.00 / 1  (Related)  11.00 / 1 )

Jeff.   Okay. Hey Mikey, one other thing to clue you in on, I’m an Op Ed contributor with Military.com, and I’ve already pulsed the editor of that outfit, and asked him if, at some point, if we pull all this stuff together into what I would guess would be an extended feature article, I asked him if he’d be interested in me doing something like that, and he said yes. I don’t know how familiar you are with Military.com, are you?

Mikey. No, I am familiar. What I would suggest is a couple things. First, if you go buy my book at Amazon or on the website, I think it costs $18 or $20, something like that, all the money helps us, it helps our sales numbers. Plus you’ve got to read the book, sit down with a beer, you can read it in a few hours, it will fucking blow you away.

Pyrrho. Yeah I’m going to do that.

Mikey. Whatever you do, read the book.

Shockwave. It gets much stronger by the end, I was shocked.

Mikey. Well if you get chapters 18-20, I didn’t want to write. My publisher’s the biggest one in New York City, St. Martin Press, and they said you have to do this. And it’s what happened to me my first semester at the Academy, and the bargain I struck unofficially with the Academy, they would not ever come after me for striking an officer that was connected with this, and I wouldn’t tell anybody what happened to me. It was not an official bargain, it lasted for 30 years until my young son told me that day what happened to him, and then my whole world blew up.

And it came to a head because the religious right went out to the Academy and the press with a scurrilous letter claiming that I’d been caught as a fourth classmen posting swastika notes on my own door. Had been caught, been considered for a court marshall, they said they just figured I was trying to get attention so they put me into a long counseling program. I had to hire special lawyers to find the people who wrote the letters. They found them in 16 hours, they signed a complete retraction. The truth was is that I graduated magna cum lader, I was an honors graduate. I was a squadron commander twice, I was in an intercollegiate athlete. I graduated very high in my class, and this was a complete scurrilous lie.

But what really happened, was shocking, and you see it towards the end of the book – it’s only 24 pages, chapters 18-20, but I think it provides, if you’re going to do something substantial, then it’s worth it to buy the book and go from there. Shockwave, I think you’ve read the book?

Shockwave. Yeah. Alright, thanks Mikey.

Mikey.   Thank you guys.

My Left Wing, the bravest and most beautiful freedom rant.

by:
Shockwave  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 17:32:10 PM CDT  (Related)  [
Parent  (Related)
|
Reply  (Related)

]

Mikey is dedicating his life to the cause

(11.00 / 7  (Related)  11.00 / 7 )

Then again he was an officer and he swore to protect the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. These theocons in the Pentagon and in particular at the US Air Force Academy coul;d not care less about the US Constitution.

Then again neither does Bush nor Dick Cheney. At the West Point graduation this year, Cheney made this painfully clear to anyone who would listen. (Related)

On your first day of Army life, each one of you raised your right hand and took an oath. And you will swear again today to defend the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

No Dick, it is "defend the Constitution". Then again you are above the Constitution according to your sick mind.

My Left Wing, the bravest and most beautiful freedom rant.

by:
Shockwave  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 14:29:27 PM CDT  (Related)  [ Reply  (Related)

]

I hate to say it, but I'm saying: bring back the draft

(10.00 / 2  (Related)  10.00 / 2 )

Yes, I know that the draft can potentially be misused by a President (to call upon massive numbers of troops, for example, that are not available in a volunteer force),, but this "Christianization" of the military is a very disturbing and dangerous development.

The only way to stop it is to draft liberals. And why not? It's our country, too, and we ought to be willing to have our children defend it with their lives.

by:
The BloggingCurmudgeon  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 14:55:51 PM CDT  (Related)  [ Reply  (Related)

]

In 1969

(6.67 / 3  (Related)  6.67 / 3 )

while stationed at ft lewis wa I had many conversations with the lifers around me about ending the draft. I was in favor of an all vol army. They warned that our army would no longer look like our country and there would be an ugly shift in the tone of the military.

by:
captainkillian  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 16:19:09 PM CDT  (Related)  [
Parent  (Related)
|
Reply  (Related)

]

More and more it is not about DemRats vs. Ratpubs.

(7.50 / 2  (Related)  7.50 / 2 )

That's the the front game.

It's about various special interests sparring for position and power.

Largely below the radar.

Ones that are no longer wasting much time on the almost-over Bread and Circus parties.

Watch Bloomberg.

He understands this.

Does he himself front for special interests?

Of course.

But...which ones?

Question of the day, to say he least.

AG

He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.-Thomas Paine

by:
Arthur Gilroy  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 15:40:12 PM CDT  (Related)  [ Reply  (Related)

]

Would that it were

(7.00 / 1  (Related)  7.00 / 1 )

diminunist Christian philosophy . Very small xians don't scare me.

I think he meant dominionist  (Related)

Excellent interview, and keep turning over those rocks Shockwave.

If at first you don't suceed, go get stoned.

by:
keefer55  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 16:19:04 PM CDT  (Related)  [ Reply  (Related)

]

Thanks for the outstanding interview,

(10.00 / 1  (Related)  10.00 / 1 )

Mikey is doing excellent and important work.

I'm sending a few bucks his way ;-)

Peace!

"Truth has no time of its own. Its hour is now -- always, and indeed then most truly when it seems most unsuitable to actual circumstances."

by:
roysol  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 17:16:39 PM CDT  (Related)  [ Reply  (Related)

]

I'll see him tonight and I'll tell him

(0.00 / 0  (Related)  0.00 / 0 )

Every bit helps.

My Left Wing, the bravest and most beautiful freedom rant.

by:
Shockwave  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 17:25:24 PM CDT  (Related)  [
Parent  (Related)
|
Reply  (Related)

]

My Iowa City VA Hospital Experience

(0.00 / 0  (Related)  0.00 / 0 )

started in 1969 and continues to this day.

Mr Miller's story does not jibe with my experience.

I'm gonna drive over there next week and nose around a little bit.

by:
captainkillian  (Related)   @
Sun Jun 24, 2007 at 19:20:03 PM CDT  (Related)  [ Reply  (Related)

] MLW Exclusive Interview: Mikey Weinstein vs. Weaponized Evangelism  (Related)

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